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Thread: Front ends

  1. #1
    McPappy Team Driver horsedog's Avatar
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    Front ends

    Any one been testing the gfrp?

  2. #2
    McPappy Team Driver dARYLbARTH's Avatar
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    Me Ryan and Dom have been using it . Dunno if anyone else has.

  3. #3
    Member RDub355's Avatar
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    I dont have gfrp yet. Been using ksg. Dom likes the gfrp and i plan on testing it now that they got the geometry correct. It seems more ridgid than the ksg front end even..

  4. #4
    McPappy Team Driver dARYLbARTH's Avatar
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    Eh. I thought you ran a gfrp on one of your cars in Florida. My badski

  5. #5
    McPappy Team Driver horsedog's Avatar
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    By fixed geometry did they make new parts or just the shim under the lf castor block?

  6. #6
    Member RDub355's Avatar
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    cut one castor block down .050" i believe rf? bill is making shims as well to get everything adjusted to your liking..

  7. #7
    I've been running the GFRP on both my 17.5 open and 13.5 COT cars. They are very well made. I recently put the new milled caster block on my COT car. Seemed to work well. I am able to run less camber with the increased camber gain. One thing I'm not sure about is the fact that the only way to reduce camber gain on the L/F is by raising the roll center. As far as durability...so far I have had no issues. However I've heard guys are running the KSG turnbuckles because there have been some issues with the GFRP's bending. I have also been running the same pivot balls all season and still have no slop.

  8. #8
    I didn't realize you guys were also running them. I would love to hear how you guys have them setup. I can share mine if anyone is interested. My 17.5 car is hooked up. My COT car gets better every week but still making changes.

  9. #9
    Member RDub355's Avatar
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    im not sure if chuck tested gfrp in cot. if i were to run cot id run the tried and true old school ae front end the way dom and i set them up. in the faster classes id try the gfrp the same way my ksg front ends are set up and the way dom has his set up..i have no time on the gfrp yet however.

  10. #10
    McPappy Team Driver dARYLbARTH's Avatar
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    From what I've seen, the gfrp front end can be made VERY aggressive for getting the car to turn, which isn't desireable in COT or slower classes I'm sure with some time, it could however be figured out.

  11. #11
    Administrator James35's Avatar
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    Yeah, if you don't space up the left caster block, the car will be very aggressive due to the low front roll center.

  12. #12
    Build tip... Be sure the pivot balls fit free in the sockets. Some are a little tight, I chuck mine in a cordless drill and hit them with scotch brite if they are tight. The balls are soft because they have a lot of Teflon in them, so be sure you do not take off to much material. 0.0005 makes a huge difference!
    Last edited by bmalicoat; February 22nd, 2014 at 07:20 AM.

  13. #13
    McPappy Team Driver Dom Ruggiere's Avatar
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    GFRP is working real well... Ran in both 10.5 and Mod At birds... Mod car hasn't turned so good! very happy with it... Also just ran gfrp on my 13.5open car at Amain raceway with good results / really good feel from it... Not sure if this is a option for spec or slower classes yet... might need to be de-tune a bit has it might scrub some speed compared to AE front end... Will try and post soon the correct way to run this front end / shimming and servo setup...

  14. #14
    I have shaved 2 seconds off my track record time with the GFRP in 17.5. Only big change I made on the car this season. That and associated shocks that I haven't rebuilt in about 5 race nights haha... car just keeps getting faster. I'm sitting at 95 5:01 right now. I was on a 96 lap run this past race but tangled with some lapped traffic. That's my goal this year.

  15. #15
    McPappy Team Driver Dom Ruggiere's Avatar
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    good to here joe

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colavita View Post
    I've been running the GFRP on both my 17.5 open and 13.5 COT cars. They are very well made. I recently put the new milled caster block on my COT car. Seemed to work well. I am able to run less camber with the increased camber gain. One thing I'm not sure about is the fact that the only way to reduce camber gain on the L/F is by raising the roll center. As far as durability...so far I have had no issues. However I've heard guys are running the KSG turnbuckles because there have been some issues with the GFRP's bending. I have also been running the same pivot balls all season and still have no slop.
    Joe, Exactly how are you setting the GFRP frontend up? In particular....How much spacing are you using under the left and right caster blocks? Any other info you are willing to share would be great.

    Thanks

    RC

  17. #17
    The turnbuckles that come with the kit are made from 7075 Aluminum. The ones that come on the KSG are Lunsford 3x16 turnbuckles. I am actually using the Lunsford ones on mine. The ones we made are oversize to be sure there is no thread slop. This was a request from a few testers. I have personally not had any slop with the Lunsford ones and they are stronger.

  18. #18
    McPappy Team Driver horsedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmalicoat View Post
    The turnbuckles that come with the kit are made from 7075 Aluminum. The ones that come on the KSG are Lunsford 3x16 turnbuckles. I am actually using the Lunsford ones on mine. The ones we made are oversize to be sure there is no thread slop. This was a request from a few testers. I have personally not had any slop with the Lunsford ones and they are stronger.
    What would you know anyway bill? Lol

  19. #19
    McPappy Team Driver horsedog's Avatar
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    What if you were to use the Super short TOP steering blocks with the short gfrp caster blocks? Would that get the geometry better and lower?

  20. #20
    Ray I'm currently using the standard caster block on the R/F with the upper arm spaced in the middle. The L/F is spaced up .100" with the upper arm spaced all the way forward. I will be swapping out the R/F block with the milled piece for the next race to see how it works. I like it on the COT car. I may also add some spacing under the L/F. I will post my results next Sunday.

  21. #21
    Thanks Joe. Putting this front end on my spec truck. Will space as you suggested

    Ray

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Ruggiere View Post
    GFRP is working real well... Ran in both 10.5 and Mod At birds... Mod car hasn't turned so good! very happy with it... Also just ran gfrp on my 13.5open car at Amain raceway with good results / really good feel from it... Not sure if this is a option for spec or slower classes yet... might need to be de-tune a bit has it might scrub some speed compared to AE front end... Will try and post soon the correct way to run this front end / shimming and servo setup...
    Was going to use this frontend on a spec truck. Dom mentioned above that it may need to be de-tuned for the slower class. Did you ever test it out and come up with the proper setup?

    Thanks for any info.

    Ray

  23. #23
    McPappy Team Driver GLEWIS73's Avatar
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    Just installed GFRP front ends on my 13.5 spec and 13.5 open cars and I struggle with going for the proper roll center or just work on less camber gains which totally screw up the roll centers. The last couple years I have gone for less cambers gains by raising the LF upper arm and lengthening it. Now I'm starting to go for a better roll center and a ton of LF jacking force. Basically then the LF has some big time camber gain but one of the pro's might also be a much smaller contact patch down the shoot so less tire drag. This is my big car super late model setup taking over my brain. Does anybody have any thoughts in regards to this stuff?

  24. #24
    Administrator James35's Avatar
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    What do you mean when you say "Now I'm starting to go for a better roll center" and "a ton of LF jacking force."
    As for contact patch on the straight, my personal testing has revealed that it was desirable to have good contact patch on the straights for stability purposes, at least in the faster classes. Kind of the same reason we switched from wings mounted with wire to wings mounted with lexan. They increase stability like side dams. Less contact patch might be an option in the slower classes though.

  25. #25
    McPappy Team Driver GLEWIS73's Avatar
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    What I mean by that is now with much more angle in the LF upper arm it moves the roll center more to the left and lower like where I would want it on my late model. As apposed to before with the LF inner pivots raised and a longer arm to reduce camber gain which raises the roll center through the roof and to the right a ton, that would be a horrible idea in my late model.

  26. #26
    McPappy Team Driver Dom Ruggiere's Avatar
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    so between the 2 classes spec / open Ive found that they need completely two different setups front and rear end to get the corner speed out of them... spec being less aggressive front and rear...
    Dominic Ruggiere
    McPappy Racing

  27. #27
    McPappy Team Driver Dom Ruggiere's Avatar
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    so I personally like to run the old school front end on spec cars (associated) with the McPappy Castor Block spaced out on 80k LF... Castor pin in the middle hole LF... No spacing on the RF and pin in the bottom hole... both sides I run .330 steering block heights with b3 kingpin with no extra shims between... We tried to match other front ends to this but at the end of the day we have all went faster on the old school front end... Basically this setup doesn't drag the LF around the track...

    Now on faster classes... I still use the same steering block height but I use the newer machined front ends like GFRP, KSG, POP2 they all have the castor pin holes dropped and moved in closer which makes for a ton more chamber gain and lower roll center...
    Dominic Ruggiere
    McPappy Racing

  28. #28
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    Can anyone tell me what springs they are running on the gfrp front end? Also what spring rates? I bought a mcdominator 2.1 with the gfrp front end and it looked like associated springs. Not sure though and I am very unfamiliar with this front end. Thanx.

  29. #29
    dom-compairison-of the ksg frontend to the pop2-on center exit with both frontends setup the same with LF castor shim at .080 to compare-your thoughts on feel in 13.5/10.5 open-obviously both with zero slugs on same 2.1 chassis with/wo trailing

    thanks
    bill

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